Utwórz nowy wątek Odpowiedz w wątku  [ Posty: 4 ] 
Autor Wiadomość
Avatar użytkownika

Posty: 2767
Dołączył(a): 16.06.2004
PostNapisane: 29 kwi 2014, 12:26 
... ... -4-28-2014


Avatar użytkownika

Posty: 2767
Dołączył(a): 16.06.2004
PostNapisane: 29 kwi 2014, 13:58 
A to jest najleszy artykul jaki czytalem , ktory wyjasnia dokladnie jak Blizz z WoWa zrobil zabawe dla casuali. To jak ten koles wtraca im arguemnty z reki az boli :D , kapitalne, szczerze polecam : ... evs_about/

While, this article was am certain in an attempt to stifle those in favor of 40 man raids and to cajole those on the anti 40 man bandwagon to continue on their crusade, it is an okay cursory overview of the current developers perceived intent of the previous developer's actual design goals.
Of course, this is the realm of politics, both between WoW and it's subscribers, and those interested in WildStar.
It makes many statements of opinion, as fact.
MC was not available at launch, it was patched in and when we did get to it, placeholder gear models were our reward. I.E. it was not finished. This continued into BWL where we got to Chrom and were met with a GM who stated that they were sorry but there was no more content available, Nef was not finished. Queue Furor's Plane of Time rant...
BRD/BRS and Strat were all designed with the intent of making them like Everquest "zones". Black Rock Depths was a god damned city with over 20 bosses.
You had to clear BRD in order to get to MC. The actual, physical zone in was inside of BRD. THIS is why the cap, on what is now 5 man content, was 40 players.
This same design was carried out with Black Rock Spire. In Upper Black Rock spire there is the zone in to Black Wing Lair. Black Rock Spire was the pinnacle of the intent of the old school "zone" design. Upper took a raid size of 10 - 20 to complete. Usually no more than 20 because people simply refused to join with more because the prospect for loot was diminished.
The dungeons were designed to have more than 5 players involved, this offset the lack of gear. In fact, Tier 0 was farmed by 10 man raids for ages. That is right boys and girls, WoW had 10 man raiding at launch, as determined by the players.
Gear acquisition was a natural nerf. As your team got more gear, the raids became easier. Eventually everyone was in Tier 1 with some Tier 2 and could venture into the beginning of AQ40. Had Naxx been out for longer than 6 months more people would have been able to see it as the natural nerf of more gear would have allowed them to do so. This principle has been used again and again with The Lich King, Deathwing and now with Garrosh.
I will note with BC that they did in fact have a new paradigm, one which high end raiders were pleased with. Naxx was the starting point, the first glimpse of this new age of raiding.
For the uninitiated, everything in WoW up to the release of Naxx was Everquest, through and through.
Naxx stands alone in the mire of Classic WoW as the pinnacle and the first sweet taste of the new paradigm we would drown in during BC.
Although, you wouldn't know it from the contradictions this article has within itself:
Therefore, applying the tried and true principles of Internet forum logic, Lucifron was clearly more challenging than Garrosh—or any boss in the past 5 years for that matter. OK, maybe not.
And then later acknowledging that Naxx was indeed a new age along with the raids of BC:
At The Burning Crusade’s release, the 25-player raid content was mistuned: In many ways, encounters like the original Gruul and Magtheridon picked up where Naxxramas had left off, providing stern challenges for the best guilds in the world, but presenting a brick wall to the rest of the raiding population. This was corrected by Patch 2.1 a few months later, which also established the precedent that each expansion’s raids would be self-contained and would provide an entry point for players who were brand new to raiding.
One has to consider this when thinking in retrospect of the 40 man raids of the past and how Blizzard chose to change and evolve them. Let me repeat that, how, BLIZZARD, chose to change and evolve them.
The fact is that 40 man raids did not have to be changed and Blizzard did not intend to do so. However, there was a huge campaign, the great "casual vs hardcore" debate on the WoW forums before the Burning Crusade launch where Blizzard was more or less forced to go back and redesign the raids to be 25 player raids because they were already designed as 40 man raids. This is why they were "mistuned". Their hand was forced due to the opaque nature of their community relations at the time.
The change was initially disastrous. 40 man raid teams had to be paired down, dropping 1/3 of your raid team meant that much drama ensued and even more continued as the uneven number of 25 did not match well with the 10 man raids of Karazhan and later Zul Aman.
In true Blizzard fashion, they not only threw the baby out with the bath water with 40 man raids, but then turned around and gave us everything including a new kitchen sink!
There are myriad amenities and accoutrements that 40 man raiding was never afforded.
Blizzard had not yet perfected the LFG tool. At BC launch it was a summoning stone and nothing more.
There were no guild banks. Guilds used to have alt characters as their guild bank. Talk about trust, or lack thereof.
Just think of all of the small details that have been added and refined over the last decade; threat meters, enemy cast bars that the players can see, in game guild recruitment, training dummies, more than one viable role for all classes, dual/multi specs, etc, etc, etc.
The reason that BC is so fondly remembered is not because it was the advent of 25 man raiding, or 10 man raiding, they could have stuck with 40 man and done just as well. In fact, Blizzard reached 11 M subscribers, 7 M more than Classic had, during this period of "hardcore raiding".
The reason that BC is so fondly remembered is because it was linear "progression" raiding with a natural nerf cycle via gear and also by the hand of the developers.
By the time the next iteration came along, there was a great "middle class" of raiding guilds. Mid level guilds abound that had persevered and finished their attunements and were finishing up SSC/TK and working on Hyjal/BT.
which also established the precedent that each expansion’s raids would be self-contained and would provide an entry point for players who were brand new to raiding.
BC also saw the origin of what would become the ultimate demise of WoW, "welfare epics" (Epics purchased with tokens). Welfare epics are a great concept in and of themselves. The problem they had is not a problem inherent of them but of the process that was instituted along with them, gear and raid resets and not waiting long enough to have a reset.
BC also repeated the same mistake with Sunwell that was seen with Naxx in Classic, it was only out for a short period of time before the next expansion. Ironically there was a 9 month period between BT and Sunwell where many hardcore guilds simply quit as they waited for more content or a new expansion. This significantly contributed to so few players ever seeing Sunwell as many hardcores had left. I saw even more hardcore players leave with WotLK as they had already farmed Naxx for months in Classic.
This bring us into the modern era of WoW and MMO raiding. Full raid and gear resets at the beginning of each tier. Recycled content and models. Gimmick fights using vehicle UIs even in such lauded raids as Ulduar and it's Flame Leviathan.
World of Warcraft and Blizzard created their own path. They cannot go back. They tried in Cataclysm with Heroic 5 man dungeons by adding in content that required crowd control. The casual masses lost their minds and it was quickly nerfed, never for us to see any vestige of ever again.
There are two extremes and a middle ground to be seen not just in WoW but all MMOs;
Everquest, huge raids, camping parties, huge parties to clear basic content such as BRD and Scholomance back in Classic WoW;
The balanced difficulty that was seen in The Burning Crusade with raiding progression, natural gear nerfing and even handed developer nerfing and attunement lifting along with "welfare epics" that saw the rise of the mid level raiding guild, the "middle class" of raiders;
Finally, the current paradigm of raiding experienced by the masses. MOBA raiding. Queue up for everything from dungeons to arenas and battleground to 25 man raids.
Surely if one can cede that
In many ways, that was the most challenging aspect of classic WoW raiding: the logistics of assembling and maintaining a sufficient roster with sufficient gear.
They can concede that 40 man raiding is ripe to be revisited now that the technological burdens of organization and player performance and awareness within an MMO have been sufficiently iterated upon and mostly alleviated;
We have characters that are designed for and viable in more than one group role.
We have threat meters.
We can see our enemy's cast bars.
We have training dummies.
We have in game guild recruitment tools.
We have guild banks.
We have the experience of the last 10 years;
Attunements can provide a narrative and challenge for those first to encounter the raids of Nexus.
Those attunements can be removed once sufficient time has passed.
Those raids can be nerfed once sufficient time has passed.
We now know to wait, in Blizzards case at least 9 months, after a raid is released to proceed with the release of a new raid to allow players time to defeat the encounters.
With consideration of all of this I hope that one can see that raid size is superfluous to the discussion and belies either sides efforts as any red herring will tend to do.
I wish Blizzard well in the future.
Let us discuss now all of the cool things that can be instituted into 40 man raids with the new technology that is available as well as the developer and player experience that has matured to the fantastic point it is currently in.
While this is lengthy, it was even longer. I paired it down (1000 word reddit limit). I apologize for any inconsistencies of logic or concept flow or connections. This is in no way exhaustive, many topics were merely mentioned or simply touched upon.
Thank you for your time. I look forward to conversing with anyone about the topics within.



Posty: 59
Dołączył(a): 10.03.2013
PostNapisane: 30 kwi 2014, 06:33 
A blizzard na to NIEMOŻLiWE....

Avatar użytkownika

Posty: 2767
Dołączył(a): 16.06.2004
PostNapisane: 30 kwi 2014, 13:17 
Blizz ma swoja wersje :>


Wyświetl posty nie starsze niż:  Sortuj wg  
Utwórz nowy wątek Odpowiedz w wątku  [ Posty: 4 ] 

Kto przegląda forum

Użytkownicy przeglądający ten dział: Brak zidentyfikowanych użytkowników i 13 gości

Nie możesz rozpoczynać nowych wątków
Nie możesz odpowiadać w wątkach
Nie możesz edytować swoich postów
Nie możesz usuwać swoich postów

Skocz do:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group | Theme based on Zarron Media theme | Copyright © 2001-2012 Team
Redakcja nie ponosi odpowiedzialnosci za tresc komentarzy i odpowiedzi umieszczanych przez uzytkownikow.